Thursday, March 17, 2011

Rebuttal to the "Belief In Magick Yes/No"


Frater Robert posted about his belief in magick. I adamantly disagreed with his post. He talks about believing in the magick. I have and will always disagree with this model. In my mind, its like the nature versus nurture model. Is the magician nurturing the magick by engaging in the process of magick or is it already the nature of the magician to do the magick? One bit of information that has empowered me is the idea that the magician already possesses all of the necessary powers to perform magick. I am convinced that the magick works. I disagree with his following statement: is so immersed in the process that one's spirit and soul slowly get refined.

One cannot refine the Spirit any more than it already is. The SPIRIT, just is. It's not about the process or engaging in the process. Simply stated in mathematical terms:


I do however believe in Stenwick's comments on "believing more" but I think Frater Robert totally misses his point. Frater Robert makes the statement:

Yes yes, a few people put things together not believing they work and get surprised but long term, the magician has to believe magick works in order to fully engage in the process

If I already believe in the power of my spirit AKA the magick, then why doesn't the magick work? Frater Robert's statement about belief in the magick contains a slight fallacy for me. This contradicts a component of the Work that I recently discovered. It the whole concept of "you are not your thoughts" idea. The "doubt-free" perspective pertains not to the magick AKA the spirit, Stenwick's statement pertain to the belief in oneself. Before the magick can work, I must first believe in myself by removing all of the baggage that I have attained over my lifetime.

As per Frater Robert' statement, a few people put things together, not believing the magick but the non-belief in oneself is a non-issue (BTW, I hate double negatives) so the magick works in the long term. It the idea that "hell, lets try this, it caint (yes I said caint) hurt or make anything worse than it already is", which is likened to the Stenwick's temporary suspension of doubt. I am also thinking that it has something to do with the "nothingness" that is above Kether but that idea will require further pondering.

With that said, I will offer up a bit of evidence that may require further thought but I am still posting it here.

Children are truly magickal beings. They don't have to believe in magick. It just is. They are the closest manifestation of the Spirit AKA the magick in human form. Children are magickal because they do not have the issues or baggage that takes a lifetime to develop. Any person, who loves kids, would understand this.


Jack Faust said...

Magick = Spirit? Really? That's it, 'eh?

I think you're over-simplifying an equation in this case, P.A. Especially when "spirit" comes from the Latin "spiritus" which means "breathe".

Scott Stenwick said...

Children are truly magickal beings. They don't have to believe in magick. It just is.

I agree with this as far as the belief question goes, but it brings up a big practical argument that gets in the way of the "belief powers magick" idea. Why are children so much less magically powerful than adults if belief is indeed the key to powerful magick?

Some background. I jokingly refer to myself sometimes as a "semi-generational" magician. I wasn't brought up in a specific family tradition because the last real family practitioner before me was my great-grandmother and she died four years before I was born. But I did grow up without the "magick is nonsense" pressure that a lot of people get in western culture. So I tried to use magick for all sorts of things from an early age, and it didn't start working for me until I was into my teens. As I got older my magick got better. So I'm thinking that means something other than belief must be going on there.

PhoenixAngel said...

@Jack: Perhaps my equation is a gross oversimplification of the Spirit and to tell you the truth, my Latin sucks but I am still sticking with the idea that one has to believe in themselves before the magick can be harnessed

PhoenixAngel said...

@Ananael Qaa: I am an "re-entry student" of magick so I cannot make the comparisons like you do but I respect and am thankful for your input

PhoenixAngel said...